The Value of Music – A Principal’s Perspective
Thanks for joining our ‘Welcome to Music’ Podcast, Episode #6 where I’ll be chatting with George Danson, who is the principal of Le Page Primary School in Melbourne, Australia where I teach. George is a huge advocate for music education and the arts and ensures that these subjects are at the forefront of the school’s programs and the beating heart of the school.
George remarks that “Children need to feel and tap into their imagination, their creativity. They need to feel connected. They need to feel that joy. Students need these elements to feel whole, and music provides that.”
How lucky am I, to have a principal that understands the value of music education for each child. Listen to the podcast or read the transcription in the blog and find out more from a principal’s perspective.
If you'd like to watch the interview instead, view the video below.
Let’s start at the very beginning…
Susie
Hello everyone, and it's so nice to have you here at the Welcome to Music podcast for music, and classrooms in Early Childhood and Primary/Elementary schools, music therapists, studio music teachers, parents, and anyone who uses music with kids to support their well-being and development from zero to 12 years. My name is Susie Davies-Splitter, and I've been teaching music to all ages in early childhood, schools and universities over many years.
With my husband Phil, we run Welcome to Music where we create music resources, we have a membership community, and present training and programs for kids and educators. Our goal is to help build confidence and creativity and enrich lives through the joy of music. I hope that this podcast can support and inspire you and maybe even make your job a little easier through sharing tips, chats, lesson plans, interviews and great quality music resources to use with your children. I use an inclusive multi modal, multi-sensory and Orff based approach to help make the learning stick. Please enjoy the Welcome to Music podcast and find us at www.welcometomusic.net
Welcome to George Danson
Susie
A huge welcome to you, George. And thank you so much for joining me for the podcast. And I'm very excited about this. You are the first principal that I am interviewing and I hope to interview a few more that really believe in the value of music and the arts. And I know that you do so much. And I thought rather than reading out your bio, would you like to talk through this? I think it would be so much better to hear you say it, than let me read it out.
How did you get involved in music when you were a kid? Was there a family influence?
George Danson
Well, pretty much from a little child, I used to listen to my father sing and play the piano, and my grandmother used to play the piano. There was this magic about listening to them do that. And as I started at school, I would make up my own songs and sing alongs. I loved to sing in groups and choir and I thoroughly enjoyed it. It gave me a real sense of voice and being able to express myself and then moving into secondary school, my music teacher said you will be great at the clarinet. I didn't even know what a clarinet was, and so I majored in clarinet.
I was also a singer in the school band. We went to Mildura and toured around the state performing and it was just a wonderful experience, especially to build my self-confidence. As I went into my teens, I picked up the guitar and I could struggle enough to sing along and make my family happy. I actually did join a gospel band that travelled to New Zealand and we did some gigs over there but I wasn't very good.
And then going to university and doing my Bachelor of Education with a major in music. So I picked up piano and continued singing. And so when I started teaching as a general primary school teacher, I had this amazing understanding that music brings joy, and it can really be something that's enriching. And so you know, in my teaching years, I would run choir groups and concerts and, and you know, I remember one time my students they sang and did actions to our “Beds are Burning” by Midnight Oil and it was a legendary performance.
It was so good. And so coming into principalship you know, I still kept it going but it's something that never dies it's within me always, you know, getting the staff up to perform and we've been the Partridge Family and the Pet Shop Boys and you name it and we just brought the house down.
And it was amazing to see the joy on people's faces, no surprise, but also, it's just about who I am. And so music has been there from the start and continues to be a part of my life. And so that sort of gives you a context of where I'm at now.
Susie
And obviously, there are so many principals and so many educators that don't have that background. And the fact that you do and you know about the joy that it brings, makes all the difference, doesn't it? You want your children to experience what you've experienced? Yeah, we have to somehow try and get through to other principals and other educators.
Let me just say to our listeners, that you are the principal at Le page Primary School in Melbourne. And that's where I teach. And I've been there for the last year. And you have been very, very supportive of music and the arts. Well, that's probably why I'm there, actually. As I’m at the tail end of my career, I wouldn't bother being in a school, where it's not supported and valued. But of course, in so many schools, there isn't a music program.
And it's just so sad, because you know, the value of it, and also how it can really help kids through their literacy and numeracy. And I've spoken to so many principals over the years, and they kind of say, well, we've had to get rid of the music program and the arts program, because we've got to focus on literacy and numeracy. And yet, we can do that through the arts. And of course, you would know that, yeah, but how do we get that message across? Yes, to other educators and other principals. That's the big question, isn't it? The really big question.
So you learned clarinet. And I know that I have spoken to you about possibly having the courage to play in front of the kids. Even if it squeaks a bit, maybe you could think about it. You also played guitar. And that's something that maybe you could do as well, because I find that when the staff get involved, it makes all the difference to the kids. Teachers become their musical role models.
As you know, Miss Anna, who is one of the staff members at our school, she played the violin, and she was a bit hesitant about it. And she said, I used to learn, I might get it out. And it just makes such a difference. Also, we had a drum kit up on the stage for a little while and another staff member said, I used to learn the drums so I might get up and do something, which was a great inspiration to the kids who were beaming when he played for them.
Well, you've talked a little bit about family influence, your father sang and played the piano. And did that really inspire you as well?
George Danson
He wasn't very good. And he used to play by ear, but the fact that the piano was in the living room, I would want to tinker with it. And he taught me my first few songs, you know, so yes, it was a big inspiration. And my grandmother, she and I were kindred spirits. So there was some type of depth to that connection and wanting to be a bit like them.
Yes, and that's certainly how it was for me, too - both mum and dad were music teachers. So yeah, we had music in the house all the time and had little concerts. Mum would hire halls and my brother and I would go along and join in and it was just part of my life. Yeah. And it's just, as you've said, it's just so joyous, to grow up with that.
Who are what was your greatest musical influences? I'll let you talk a little bit about that.
George Danson
Yeah, well, you know, I've always loved music. And in the 60s, I remember watching the Seekers performing. And we used to sing their songs in primary school, the teacher would write all the lyrics up. And we would learn all the lyrics on the big charts. And I remember being called Georgie as one of the biggest hits was ‘Georgie Girl’.
I was mortified by that, nonetheless, I still enjoyed the Seekers very, very much. And even through the passing of my father and playing one of their songs at his funeral ‘The Carnival is over’, they've always been with me just such a powerful group. And I think they imprinted on me during the 60s when I was in my early primary school years, Peter, Paul and Mary were another group of the time, and ‘Puff the Magic Dragon’ and ‘Blowing in the Wind’ and all of those classic folk songs that were just so beautiful. But then, I love so many groups.
Abba is a favourite pop group of mine that were a hit when I was 13 years of age, and they captured my heart. And I've been on the path with them ever since.
I do love classical because I've learned clarinet so that, you know, there's a whole range of different styles that have influenced me. But these are my favourite - Seekers, Peter Paul and Mary and Abba. And there's also a musical style from the 60s in the United States called Gospel, with black Americans singing in particular women dancing in the streets and those types of songs, they still have such an impact on me when I listen to them. Something very strong in that sound that connects with my energy.
Susie
That's wonderful. And it's interesting that you mentioned energy. This year, we're going to trial having a singalong at the assemblies which I'm so looking forward to. I think you're absolutely right in terms of the energy as it just connects us to our own energy and to each other's energy as well. And that's such a special thing about singing. So I can't wait to do that. We can do some of the Seekers and Peter Paul and Mary songs
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How do you think music education can help kids develop? And why is it important? I know you've already touched on that. But just tell us again or maybe in a different way.
George Danson
I think personally gospel music or any emotional music really does talk to me and it can really help me process what I'm going through and what I'm living through. And it can inspire me. And I think music in general touches the soul and it brings joy and hope.
I believe it heals your emotions. I see that it fosters imagination, creativity, and connectivity with others. And so you know, we talked about the teaching of the whole child today in our school systems. And I think today more than ever before. Students need these elements to feel whole. They need to feel and tap into their imagination, their creativity. They need to feel connected. They need to feel that joy. And music provides that.
And the great thing is, that a style may be doing that for one student, a different style will do it for another student, but it's there for the taking. And all we need to do is to provide it. But it's more than ever before I just see the need to really to support students, you know, post pandemic, and the younger students coming through, we see a different mindset and a different emotional level and anxiety at a heightened level. Yes, not just our school, it's across the whole system.
Susie
Oh well, you know, absolutely. You said that so beautifully. George, thank you. Because I, of course, agree with you that music makes the child whole. Yeah. And you know, over the years, I've had arguments with people where they play devil's advocate, and then say to me, well, in actual fact, you don't need music. You don't need music in your life. Or you can go through life without it. But we're so much richer for having that experience. And as you say, we become whole by being able to have that in our lives.
What I would love you to talk about is then how do we convince other principals at other schools and other educators of the value of music?
Susie
They say we've got to get the NAPLAN results up or the goals have to be literacy and numeracy, there's no time in the curriculum for music and the arts. How do we get that message across to other educators and other principals.
George Danson
I think what's current and unfolding at the moment is mental health and well-being, and it's becoming increasingly a challenge in society. And the change begins with us. Schools who prioritize music exposure in a targeted way, attract families and build positive reputations, and I'm thinking of McKinnon high school. You know, years and years ago, Sandringham technical school was a draw card when I was a child, people were saying, Wow, look at the music, look at the look performance.
The more schools that prioritize music, the greater the evidence will speak for itself and clearly display to governments that they too need to prioritize music exposure, perhaps then changes in educational policy and funding will positively affect school systems. You know, it's always done the opposite and the other way around. It’s never the Department of Education saying let's go with the performing arts. They're always looking for evidence they're looking for, well, you know, what is the need? What is the greatest need, and we are in a really privileged time as far as music lovers, because we know that mental health and well-being is now becoming a priority within the Department of Education in Victoria. And so when we look at our annual implementation plans, we need to have an academic and, and a well-being student goal. How beautifully does that well-being goal, sit as an umbrella over all the music and the arts?
And I also know that there's funding for that. So it's going to increase that's how I see it. Like, we're talking about music therapy in schools, we're talking about, you know, creativity and, detoxing and mental health and well-being strategies. And what we need to do is, I think, is to, as this school, grows and develops with music, showcase the joy to the community. It's word of mouth, you know, and it starts on the ground level.
And the more we can do this and link, what we're doing in music, to the funding that's coming in for mental health and student well-being, the more equipped we are to increase what we're doing and to share that and it's that sharing that attracts families that gets the word out through the communities. And then the department starts to say, 'What are they doing in that school? Why is their culture so positive? Why are those children happy? And that's how we can best initiate change at a government level? Yes.'
Susie
Yeah, I think that's, that's wonderful. But it obviously takes time, but we'd have to, through example, and you're certainly, you know, you are clearly leading the way in that, which is fantastic.
So, that brings me to my next question, what would you like the music program to look like? I mean, it's really in its would you say is kind of in its infancy stages.
George Danson
It's about well, since you've come along, and we had a wonderful teacher last year, as well, yes, we really just started to tap into it here being a very tiny school and growing up, and very much impoverished financially when you've got low student numbers in a government school in Victoria. But as we're gaining momentum with the student enrolment, and we've had this as a second year of music, as a generalist program with professionals, it's made such a difference. So we're just in the infancy stage.
But I have been in previous schools that I've led that we've been really quite strong and, and had amazing experiences and events with the community. So here, we're on our way. And I think now's the time for to be planning for the next three to five years.
Where do we want to be? So it's a really good question. Yeah, I think for us, it's about which we already have had that every child goes to a music lesson, once a week with a professional teacher. And in that program, there's a whole range of instruments and experiences and styles that they are exploring and tapping into.
We have a private instrumental program that children can tap into if they want to learn a different type of instrument in a paid for service way, which helps us as well. It’s about really also trusting your music team and your music teacher, or our leader and tapping into other teachers. And you know, this is where we'll build up this synergy that will attract other staff members and parents and students along the way. And I can see ensemble groups, a powerful emotional, spiritual choir, weekly school performance.
You know, we're looking at changing assemblies this year, to also have, rather than other things that we've put in there taking stuff out of the assembly agenda. And we'll put more performances in and performances beyond the school gates and concerts and therapy groups, you know, can you imagine students are providing musical therapy for their peers? How empowering is that?
Also I see that, as we re-establish the school physically, to be applying for grants for the range of purpose built practice, and teaching and learning and performance spaces.
You can have the trombone being practiced in that cubicle, and the violin next to it, and then drums down the hallway. And what really excites me, we spoke about this in our leadership meeting this morning, about producing a TV program, and then boom, out on our social media, to the parents, with the focus on the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People.
But how amazing is that platform to bring music through that to our community? Yes. So you know, having that social media platform streaming and the school website, having our music, our students presenting, acting, playing, and having that voice and agency through music in those platforms. That's what I see happening here.
And you know, at the end of the day, the students will be speaking more confidently, they'll be believing in their capabilities more so and we both know that they'll achieve higher academic standards, especially in literacy and numeracy because music is so mathematical and so joyous that it actually develops the brain and has those neuro links and pathways within the brain that the more you practice music, the more you focus on those melodies, those harmonies those rhythms, you're building, you're building memory capacity, you're building logical awareness and problem solving strengths within your own mind.
Susie
That's right. And more recently, probably over the last 20 years, a lot of people have been studying the neuroscience. And, you know, it's all evidence based now. I mean, the science is absolutely there that our brains, you know, through the music, our brains are firing all the time.
And just as one example, music can help with kids reading, by keeping a steady beat by reinforcing that beat through and putting it on the body through singing through playing instruments, that can help children's speech, reading, and, and that's amazing. And all that research is there. It's just so important that kids have that exposure to music, we need to get the message out. So thank you for saying all of that.
And my last question to you is, I call this the elevator pitch. So what is an important musical message you'd like to leave us with? And what would you like to impart to our listeners?
George Danson
I would like our listeners to if they haven't done so already, think about the link with mathematics and music. You know, I was listening to the song from the sound of music recently ‘Do a Deer’. Oh, my goodness. I was listening to it, like I was a maths teacher.
And it made the most perfect sense. It's like, perfect, it's absolutely perfect. It’s a mathematical equation. When you look at how that song is put together, and it keeps going back to do.
Susie
It's great with the hand signs
George Danson
I want everyone to know that it's, it's like mathematics with fun, right? That's fun. And secondly, I've got a favourite song of mine, and it's called ‘Music was my First Love’ by John Miles. I don't know if anyone knows it out there, but it's from the 70s. The reason I love it so much is that it's a pop song, and after a verse or two, it then goes into upbeat classical music with an orchestra.
And then it's so loud, and then it comes down to just a trickle again with the keyboard. And then it goes into a verse again as a pop song. So you get this amazing mixture of classical, pop and rock with highs and lows. And my favourite lyrics from that song, and I want to read them because this sums up what music means to me, and what I would hope it means to everyone. And this is how it connects us.
‘Music was my first love, and it'll be my last.
Music of the future, and music of the past.
To live without my music would be impossible to do.
Because in this world of troubles, my music pulls me through.’
Susie
Thank you so much. It's been so great hearing, first of all your musical journey, and how passionate you are about music and really understanding the value. So it's been an absolute pleasure speaking to you, thank you.
George Danson
So good to talk with you as well. And we are so grateful and fortunate to have had you choose to come to our school to start a new journey for our community. Thank you.
Susie
Oh, thank you, George. It's a real pleasure working at the school and I'm looking forward to the future. Thank you so much.
Closing
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